Sunday, October 2, 2005

Film Henndy : Muslims and Chirstians in Egypt part 1

Yesterday I saw a movie called 'Film Henndy' -an indian movie-the story of the movie is about two old friends one is muslim and the other chirstian ,both live in the famous quarter of Shobra in Egypt with major populotion of chirstians
Both friends want to marry but got a small problem they can't find an appartment to live in with in their budget , all appartments are expensive and they are from the low high working class ,not mention their highly demanding girls requests
Now they found an appartment which they can afford to buy but there is a problem ,it is one appartment either the muslim takes it or the chirstian does ,yet they don't won't to lose each other , so everyone left it to the other but ironically someone else took it and it was too late ,not the chirstian nor the muslim took it ,not that only but their girls left them ,and so they lost their loves but won their friendship
Okay you will wonder why it is called this strange name Indian Movie,well if you are Egyptian or lived in Egypt enough you will know why, if you aren't Egyptian ,well Indian Movies got this reputation in Egypt that it is a movie which romantic ,sad ,musical wiuth lots and lots of tragdy by the way our movie is Comedy one starring two talented comdians yet not lucky like other 'Ahmed Adam and Salah Abdallah ' yes they are muslims but there were chirstian actors like Trisia Domyan,it is shown now on ART cinema on Nilesat if you are interested 'and also subscribed to it '

Now you will wonder why do I start this post under the cateogry of News and politics in MSN Spaces as I will post it at the same time in my Egyptian Chronicle at blogspot.com and not the movie category well read the title again and you will know why ,it is about Muslims and chirstians in Egypt and this is just an introduction , a long one but not longer than the post I attend to do

This movie came accidently at the same time when The Second Coptic convention will be held in Washington D.C in the American congress discussing the obression of the Coptic Minority in Egypt ,the Convention is being funded by imigrants from the copits like Adaly Abadir ' the chirstian who wanted to run for presidency in Egypt ' ,from few days Mona El-Shazely opened the tabo with claims that Abadir wants international help just like in Bosnia and wants to have an independent state from Chirstians in the South of Egypt yet another Egyptian Chirstian from the organizers of the convention denied these claims ,yet he said they will discuss the claims of abducating the chirstian girls and forcing them into Islam !!!!!
then today on Dream 2 again 'Wael Abrashi 's truth tv show discussed again the convention with Abadir on the telephone and one of his supporters Nabil Sharf El-Din ,the famous Egypt Correspondent to Elaph.com ,and two oppenents Salah Eissa ,the famous journalist and Adal Naguib Razeq a chirstian researcher in the chirstian affairs in Egypt ,they spoke alot in both programs

Now you are put in the image if you don't know what it is going on ,after I saw the first program , I went directly to my dear friend famous Egyptian blogger Dr.Ramy , he is an Egyptian chirstian who lives in The states and I asked him what is going he told me first he had to check the copts united and he presumed it may be a game to get more Chairs in the assembly next november for the chirstians ,then he sent me a video link to an interview made by Copts united with Adaly Abadir who seems to became the enemy of state in Egypt and I was surpised to find a very very old man ,when I listened to his talk for the first time I found out he got a very long tongue and style that gave him the impression of a comedian more than a political leader 'I am really sorry to describe him like that but this impression was enforced after the phone interview with El-Abrashi ' I respect the guy and his motive but ,okay I will take step by steps as thoughts and words are running in my mind right now

I will speak now for what I think , I want to clarify something I don't attack the Egyptian Chirstians at all ,I am giving a muslim point of view ,and you will see I am just trying also to explain some points in the this issue ,so please no hard feelings as I don't have it towards any one

first I don't like the word Copt too much just like my friend free soul and his respond to my post in blogspot , but you know why because first the word Copt means Egyptian by old greek origin and I wrote early posts about this in both the MSN Spaces and the Blog spot ,so it can give the impression that Egyptian Muslims arenot so guinue Egyptians ,they are arabs and this also has some truth as some egyptian Muslims in the south of Egypt come from arabic tribes Origin ,but if we want to speak right it will be then Muslim and chirstian because in the right terms of the word of Copt and its meaning ,then I will be a MUSLIM COPT and I am really proud to say it and to say loud too, we are all Egyptians and that we should be

Second the Christians in Egypt lately began to speak about Obression and the need of more freedom to them and so on , this obression ,this word can't be used to describe the conditions of the chirstians in Egypt ,the real conditions not the claims that some pretends to happen ,there is some discremenation for them in some things but not obression ,obression is big word to describe the condition of Muslims or tabbits in China ,or in Rowunda in Africa , yes there is obression in Egypt by the regime but not on a single party but on the Whole Egyptian People ,not difference in fact there were times Muslims faced alot of obression in Egypt and nobody spoke about it and dared to open his mouth or asked the help of others

So what are these things that caused this so called Obression ?
The Second Article in the Egyptian Consituation saying that the Source of Legalization in Egypt is the Islam presented in the Islamic Shiraa , they wanted this to be cancelled and they are not alone some muslims wanted to be cancelled ,I am sorry I don't want to be cancelled ,first let's say the truth people is this a government or regime that works according to the Shiraa !? they are far away from God and Islam . where is that Shiraa ? ironically when the laws of women came from the Shiraa Muslim men were first against it and call it the Jihan Laws for Jihan El-Sadaat support to it and even when the new divorce law came from few years and it is from the shiraa ,some redical muslims men stood against it , people this regime hate the shiraa and believe me it wants to cancel it if they can but it is like a traffic dealer who put a MASHALLAH on his office wall while he is in union with Devil
well I wish that we work according to the Shiraa you know why coz there will be a real equity and here I will mention what a chirstian neighbour once said to my mom when they were talkling about the Muslim brothers 'Do you think that I will hate that Egypt will be ruled by the Shiraa , I wish we were after all it was our golden age when a chirstian young man to El-Madina to meet Omar Ibn El-Khateb complainning about the son of Amr Ibn El-aas as he hit him with no right only that his father was the ruler of Egypt ,Omar brought Amr to El-Madina along to his son and ordered the chirstian man to whip both Amr and his Son , the son as revenge ,the father for not teaching his son good manners after all the Shiraa is the one which made Omar rule justly and sleep peacefully ." Amr and his son ,oh boy can any person in Egypt muslim or chirstian , let's say Muslim on this discremenation mode now ,can he complain a son of ex-general in the police and won't suddenly disappear !????????????
Here I am asking some claims for some Egyptian Chirstians saying that obression started with the Arabic islamic rule ,sorry folks ,hisotrically it started with the Romans ,in fact History said that Islamic Arab armies didn't fight a single Egyptian in the Conquest ,in fact Egyptian Chirstians fought with the Arab armies to get rid from the romans
Yes there were some cases in the islamic age of discrementation but when ,first in the Fatami rule , in whose era ,the era of El-Hakam bamar Allah , Egypt Hanry the 8th the crazy of the crazist ,well the union of Muslims and chirstians was there ,as they faced a mad man ,who ordered the markets to be closed in the morning and to be opened in night ,and I forgot The fatami rule was the Shiia era in Egypt , the fatamis were Shiia while Egyptians are sunni ,for 600 years the Azan was according to the Shiia just like in Iran nowadays , the Sunni shekihs were forbidden to speak or preach
The real beginning of Discrementation was with the Turkish Othman rule to the arab world and before it the Mamulaks but it wasn't like the Turkish Othman rule which didn't give hard time to chirstians in Egypt only but in other parts like in Syria and Lebanon.to say the truth the Turkish Othman rule paralysed the real Islam caused it to what it reached nowadays from the troubles and misconceptation we muslims suffer from ,The Othman rule killed the equity in Islam , made the turk better race over the others ,killed the thinking ,the innovation ,the philosphy , if you read the Islamic history you will find all those great scientists ,poets and philophosers before the Othman rule , and unfortunately we still having the remaining of this rule and that we may cause the discrementation ,in the Oathman rule it is The law governing building of the churches (El nizam el hamony) that is differentiating between building a church and a mosque, a law that had been applied for more than 1000 years. now I say to the Chirstian Brothers and sisters believe me it is not easy to build a mosque either a friend of the family wanted to build one and he gave up the idea after the constraints that no one can understand except the regime doesn't want any mosque any more , and so I against any constraints against the worshipping places
The Second article of consituation doesn't stop at source of legalization but it states the Arabic is language of the State I don't see a problem in that in fact I know that there arabic bible and hear in tv some chirstian prayers in Arabic along with the coptic language m and also the religion of the State is Islam ,here is another thing that some don't like

I don't know how to speak about this but i just want to tell the Egyptian chirstians something ,the Prophet of Islam Mohamed Pbuh said 'Be Good to the Copts of Egypt ,they are in bond till the end of days' and what Prophet Mohamed Said Pbuh is an order to all Muslims in all places in all times , after all I am as Egyptian proud that Lady Maria ,the mother of believers ,the Wife of Prophet Mohamed and the mother of his Son Ibrahim Peace upon them all was an Egyptian Copt
this is the end of part 1 as I need to stop to give u a break as this is one of the most longest post I have ever written
there will be part 2 inshallah as it won't the end ,in fact I wanted to speak from a long time about this tabo
I will complete the complains of the Copts and you will find me somehow trying to be objective
Here I will end this time with Makram Abid the famous Wafadi politican in the 40s and 30s from the Golden age of Egypt ' I am Chirstian as a religion ,Muslim as a Nationality '
before anyone ask where I got it ,I wrote it down after Hamdy Kandil in his old program editor in chief , if you remember it before it is prohibited

7 comments:

  1. "I wish we were after all it was our golden age when a chirstian young man to El-Madina to meet Omar Ibn El-Khateb complainning about the son of Amr Ibn El-aas as he hit him with no right only that his father was the ruler of Egypt"

    I keep hearing this story over and over. It seems there are no other examples!

    What does this story tell?
    That Omar was a great just man. That's all. It has nothing to do with Shariaa (neither pro or con). Does this mean you have to have a just ruler like Omar? How often this happened/happens in history?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Some links:

    * When The blogger "Ibn Abdel Aziz" described himself as a Coptic Muslim, it stirred an interesting debate.

    * This is an interesting dossier on Islam Online.

    Of particular interest the numbers of Christians in parliament

    ReplyDelete
  3. " now I say to the Chirstian Brothers and sisters believe me it is not easy to build a mosque either "

    Come on... Let's speak numbers here.
    It would be nice to find a piece of statistics on the number of Mosques and Churches in Egypt.

    If the ratio is 90:10; if it is 95:5; if it is 98:2, it would still be fair enough.. Let's find it...

    In addition, Christianity and Islam are two different religions.
    Apart from Hajj, is there any Islamic "farida" that cannot be practiced at home?
    Is there an Islamic practice or prayer that cannot be done without a Sheikh?

    ReplyDelete
  4. You got a point here but it is not about the Shiraa more it is about
    the people who rule
    Omar was just because was afraid of breaking the law of God
    another tale about it when Omar saw a man and woman who were doing the
    adultery sin,immediately he rushed into El-Emam Ali who was just like
    Omar and he was the judge of the El-madina in order to arrest them for
    punishment according the islamic law ,yet Ali refused to listen to him
    or even know their names ,why because according to Islamic Shiraa
    there must be four people to witness the sin and here it was just one
    person despite the fact this person was Omar and Ali here said famous
    words 'Don't even say their names ,I won't break the shiraa for you '
    ironically here is great example that we don't have it right now with
    all respect
    believe me Ya Ramy there is great misconception about the Shiraa and
    this goes for the Turkish Period ,I didn't explain it more clearly in
    my post except for the new divorce law
    The Shiraa didn't change from 14 centuries but People are those who
    change , Gamal El-Din El-Afagani came from the same land like Taliban
    ,and even did more than them calling for the revival of Islam and
    shiraa with his real understanding to it

    ReplyDelete
  5. I missed this debate but I agree with Ibn Abd El-aziz
    I am browsing the dossier on Islamonline
    and I guess if you read the Kardowi 's about the rights of Non muslims
    in Islam according to the shiraa ,you will find what I want to say and
    even better
    the number of the chirstians in Parliament I was going to speak about
    it in the second part and here I will be biased to your side as it has
    nothing to do with Islam from Near or Far ,it is about politics and
    regimes

    ReplyDelete
  6. First of all, I must say that I believe if we apply shareia, we will have to discuss a big problem, and the result will tell if it is good to apply shareia or not !!

    now the shareia is not a holy book, actually it is formed of the explainations of hundereds of normal men along history for the holy texts left from the early days of islam, qur'aan and sunnah, now let's come to the question mark:

    which explaination should we follow?

    remember that taliban follow shareia according to their understanding, saudia follows shareia, iran follows shareia, which one is right?

    can any of us decide the right from the wrong in that ?

    I will post another topic about that in my blog later to explain more what i want to say, but i believe that the shareia from my point of view are the best to build a country on for both of us, muslims and christians, I believe so and I can indicate hundereds of things they will win if we apply it(again that is my point of view of shareia)

    what will happen if we apply taliban point of view? we will all be in a real mess, and we will all lose our freedom to do anything!

    can you see my point?

    about what dr Ramy said, I agree totally that the governement is not giving you your rights, but I have one blame to put on you, many christians as a reaction, put the blame on muslims forgetting that we are both in the same ship that is sinking!!

    The story is an indication that those men were following the laws of god, call it shareia or whatever, they were following it, they were good men because they got committed to fullfil it

    by the way, i am not against a christian president, actually i was talking to an indian friend, and she was telling me that although they have terrible problems in some areas, but as a regime, they are mature enought to understand that race or religion has nothing to do with politics, refer to the government they have and their president and you will know what i mean :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. First of all i think we have to be more accurate when we talk about history as it has a huge impact on the present and future, i quote - from the memory - a sentece of g.orwell at his book (1984) "who control the present control the past, and who control the past control the future"
    you said that becasue of the fatmis the adan was a shiite one (for 600 years)i cant give the exact number of years that fatmis was in power in egypt, but i'm sure its not even the quarter of this number
    you said that elhamayony law that rules the buildings of the churches is for more than (1000 years) actually this law was issued in the middle of the 19 century, which make it much less than 200 years
    those were figures that can be easily checed out, but dont think its an easy mission to say other words like (history said that Islamic Arab armies didn't fight a single Egyptian in the Conquest) or (The real beginning of Discrementation was with the Turkish Othman rule), or considering the hamayony law the begining of the problems of building churches in egypt
    i think a lot of historians will not totally approve such statements
    and for each of tose atatements, and others we can have long separate discussions about it
    but we have to agree first on a sentence you mentioned (it has
    nothing to do with Islam from Near or Far ,it is about politics and
    regimes) i totally agree with you and we have to understand that this is politcs we are talking about and not religion, when laics (el3elmaneyeen) says we want to separate the state from religion, we have to understand this right, here we talk about politics not religion, and this separation doesn't mean that the state will be against the religion or denying God,
    but we just have to understand the different between both so we can have a ground to talk about, for example about the second clause the part of (Islam in the religion of the state) i wish you read what M.Y. said about it in his blogger (أطروحات دستورية) as he presented a nice explanation there
    i'm sorry if i sounded too agressive in the first time i comment on your mice blog, and i do feel your real intention to be logical and unbiased about this (tabo) as you called it, so i just wanted to stress on 2 points,
    for history: don't depend on one source, and try to be more unbiased when you read it, to be able to find what can be right and what can be added to history on good or bad will
    second let's understand the difference between politics and religion which can make things easier to understand
    sorry again for this loooooooong comment, actually i could right much more about your post, but i will keep the rest for another time :)

    ReplyDelete

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